Pete Thorns newest clip!

[stef]

And this Pete Thorn clip, a 12xxx style top with a two post NON locking style trem. with a DSD.

6 screw
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g16/s ... oto-38.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yep, strat78 is the champ, eric is awesome too

[leadguy]

I threw my DSD back in because of hearing it. I do hear lots of '77 era Ed with the DSD. 'Nightmare Before Halloween' has it (DSD/Mighty Mite) thing, like the first record, but by the DEC. 31st Whiskey gig (next gig after that 'Nightmare Before Halloween' I think) I hear a weaker sound that is slightly looser and softer. It is easy to forget how much a ceramic magnet tightens and focuses the sound.

I am still convinced that this is the way the frankie looked during the recording of the 1st album with a zebra PAF rewound by duncan.

If that's a PAF then why is it not in the 1978 B&W Franky?
The 1978 B&W Franky has a black pickup with PAF like 3 bobbin holes.
The zebra pickup is a Mighty Mite.

For all we know, Ed might have picked up a Seymour wound JB at Seymour's for the 1978 B&W Franky, maybe with a A2.

Pete Thorn hasn't got a Echoplex delay in this clip and I don't know much about Jamies Crying (I don't really like it much) but I think it has a Echoplex on it giving that sound.
He's got a EP-3 pre or something but it's not the same as a delay on Echoplex.

Strat78's clips seem to have the Echoplex on in his very good Jamies Crying clips, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[leadguy]

If someone is in the middle about a PAF or a DSD/MM then maybe they should try a 8K-9K PAF with a ceramic magnet.

A PAF like pickup with a ceramic magnet is very interesting in the real world without all this winds/magnet/tone theory stuff.

The ones I've tried come out as like a PAF but with more edge and they have the ceramic thing about them but it doesn't seem to dominate as much as with a 13k-14k ceramic.

Most ceramics are with 13k-14k or even higher winds so ceramics sort of get stereotyped, but a 8k-9k ceramic is another thing but not a totally different thing and it's a sort of cross between a DSD/MM and a PAF.

There are 3 candidates for Ed and PAF ceramics in the 1970s, a Mighty Mite vintage and a Bill Lawrence designed Gibson PAF like pickup with a ceramic and a Hot Rod Kit for PAF's and T-Tops that came with a ceramic magnet and appropriate spacers.

[efraser68]

Just listening to Pete's clip and Strat78's again and there's some similarities. Pete's sounds a little 'polite' but the voicing sounds closer than that first Suhr SL68 YouTube clip. Phil's clip sounds closer to the original and has some extra heat. Don't know if he's using a variac, a load box or cranking the bias on the tubes, but the amp sounds like it's begging for mercy. Both clips brought a smile to my face, just phenomenal work

[Tone Slinger]

I agree, both clips are great.

Leadguy is right, That Zebra appears to be a Mighty Mite, and the catalogue from that era (Mighty Mite) shows that there were 9k output and the 13k (not sure of the EXACT ohmage). ALL models used the ceramic magnet though .

I think that what I hear more than ANYTHING about that '77 era Ed tone was a CERAMIC magnet, regardless of the actual power/output of the pu. The articulation was ever so BETTER then. By the '78 tour, the tone was still AMAZING, just a hair less articulate in that 'sizzle' palm mute/compressed kind of way.

I think that Efrasers amp and recording technique is as good as any. These 1959/1987 Marshall circuits just sound good with the right spec (.)

[Funky Hunky]

I started out by putting an Alnico 8 magnet in a Duncan 59. Guitar grew balls and harmonics. Compared it to my Dimarzio Super D and its similar but mids are slightly less and a different mid bump. The highs are slightly smoother. Lows are clear and tele like. Decided it was better overall. Gathered some Ceramic magnets of 2 sizes. Big thick ones that would require shimming and dis assembly. So I shoved a normal sized one ( dimensionally the same as the A5s and A8s) Tone Magic. There was the missing unique, distinct mids similar to what Ed had on certain recordings on VH1. The highs sound right too. Gain with clarity etc. The highs dont get brittle as some would expect. EQ moves up away from the brittle freqs. and goes to less offensive highs. I feel he used a PAF wind but with a Ceramic mag. Like the Mighty Mite Screamer 1300 and Dimarzio Super 2. The A8 version is close to a Super 70 too.

[Funky Hunky]

Gonna shove a normal size (1/8" thick ceramic) in the Dimarzio Super D next. Gotta make some shims. A la Sh5 Duncan Custom. Don't know if they are the same gage wire, but they are both 13k ish. Duncan Sh5 nails "Fools" tone from WACF also cleans up like nothing else.

[rgorke]

So, what do you have in the DSD now, the A8? What magnet is in the MM1400 (8.0k ish)? Ceramic?

[stef]

I had 2 DSD's - one was F spaced 14Kohm. Sold it because it sounded kinda mushy... Now I'm using a regular spaced one that measures 13K and in the same guitar (with the same volume potentiometer) it sounds better - clearer and sweeter.
The SH-5 sounded honky, boxy and tighter but also colder than the DSD.. didn't like it

[Tone Slinger]

I currently have the StewMac 'Golden Age' HOT 12k pu in my KNE. All of the bridge model StewMac pu's come F spaced. I took out the A5 magnet and put in a A2. It has just the right amount of push, wamth and clarity. I will alays have my regular spaced DSD around though. A current pu type I'm interested in is to put a ceramic magnet in my other StewMac pu (9k). It also currently has a A2 in it. I'm thinking that a ceramic mag in it will 'take' a bit of sweetness, but 'impart' a bit more bottom end and forth-rightness.

[stef]

I still have one of Ralle's clips with a 9K ceramic MM and it sounds just right for early VH. Can't hear much of a difference (through my speakers) between that one and a 13K MM clip, but Ralle said he liked the recorded sound of a 9K better, but it was harder to play...

[YMI5150?]

Eric and I did some recording last night with two guitars that are not absolute apples and apples but maybe an apple vs pearapple.

both heavy N ash strat bodies. one has 1300, maple 25.5 scale neck and vintage trem. the other 24.75 mahogany/rosewood neck, ABR bridge, and 1400. both lightly potted.

Eric has the raw audio so he can post when ready but I'd say for my rig, both are similarly voiced. The 1400 got to say old ZZ Top level grind, and the 1300 has the extra push needed to get early VH without additional push from EP3, frown curve EQ, or other help. This might need its own thread by now...