Scumback M75 the Answer?

[OdgeUK]

Been really digging my G12-65 speakers from the 80s. Would you beleive that in a Marshall 2x12 cab they kick out much more bottom end than a whole 4x12 loaded with G12C? (the Greenback style speakers made for the Jimi Hendrix cab and the Vintage Modern).

Been going back and forth between the G12C 4x12 and the G12-65 2x12 and really the only thing about the G12-65 that bugs me a bit is a mid range stiffness. This is great for an old-school woodyness but can be distracting when going for the more 80's Hot rodded Marshall tone. The G12C have a more 'wet' character in the mid range which brings to mind Van Halen quite easily. I'd probably like the G12C a whole lot more if they just had more 'ooomph'. When I A/B the two cabs it's night and day and the G12C just sound like someone took away all my bottom and lower mids.

My question is, would the M75 sound like a G12M style speaker but with the bottom-end and fullness I'm looking for? Is the lack of bottom end a characteristic of lower wattage speakers?

[bluesbreaking]

I think what you're missing with the G12C's is the larger dust cap, which emphasizes the lower-mids. I would either look into a pair of M75-LHDC's (which have the bigger dust cap), or a M75-H55 combination, which would keep the mid-character of M speakers but fatten up the lower mids and bass. If you're on a budget, you could just pick up an H55 and load it with a G12C.

[Scumback Speakers]

The M75 does have more low end than the G12C speaker with similar mids, but not as much high end. I'm not sure if this applies, but there have been many G12C loaded cabs that were wired wrong, as in one or two speakers out of phase.

You might check to see if that's the case with yours before you buy new speakers. You'll also want to check to see if the G12C's have been overtightened when mounted, which would cause some high end brittle tones.

If you need some diagrams or "how to" instructions I have all of those available, just email me and I'll send them to you. Hope that helps!

[OdgeUK]

The M75 does have more low end than the G12C speaker with similar mids, but not as much high end. I'm not sure if this applies, but there have been many G12C loaded cabs that were wired wrong, as in one or two speakers out of phase.

You might check to see if that's the case with yours before you buy new speakers. You'll also want to check to see if the G12C's have been overtightened when mounted, which would cause some high end brittle tones.

If you need some diagrams or "how to" instructions I have all of those available, just email me and I'll send them to you. Hope that helps!

Thanks Jim,

I actually put the G12C in a Marshall 1960A myself, after removing the G12-75Ts in there. As far as I recall I simply copied the wiring, swapping life for like. But I guess there is a possibility that I made a mistake somewhere.Will have to recheck my wiring. As for screwing them down too hard, yes I could definitely be guilty of that, so another thing to look at.

In your opnion, how to the G12C's stand up against the other Celestion G12M offerings? (including the 90's G12M 6402?). I wonder if I simply don't like the tonality of Greebbacks (even though most of my favourite guitar tones seem to have been recorded with G12M style speakers.)

http://s721.photobucket.com/albums/ww21 ... th%20G12C/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Ted B]

The G12C uses the same Mueller cone assembly as the alnico blue in an attempt to mimic the earliest G12Ms, and isn't something that is going to deliver much in the lower registers. Jim's M75 mimics the later Pulsonic cone assembly, which has less of a crisp midrange bark, and therefore sounds warmer. The G12-65s deliver greater low frequencies, but these are a more modern sounding speakers.

As suggested previously, pairing the G12C with a couple of H55 (lower resonant frequency) will improve low frequency response. The H55 will be about 3db more efficient, which probably works in your favor in this particular instance.

Also, making improvements to the baffle bracing to a modern 4X12 cab improves stiffness, which should help.

[OdgeUK]

Thanks for that, great info.

Do you think 2xG12C and 2xG12-65 will work in a cab together? Seeing as I've got the speakers for that right now, worth experimenting? Or is there too much of a db mismatch?

[Scumback Speakers]

Thanks Jim,
In your opnion, how to the G12C's stand up against the other Celestion G12M offerings? (including the 90's G12M 6402?). I wonder if I simply don't like the tonality of Greebbacks (even though most of my favourite guitar tones seem to have been recorded with G12M style speakers.)

http://s721.photobucket.com/albums/ww21 ... th%20G12C/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hard to say exactly where the G12C fits into the mix. Tonally I think it's brighter than the 6402 cone G12M, like the G12M RI, but not as much bass the G12M RI (current production Chinese G12M). I got a couple to test them out, and that's what I hear, but since I got them used...there's always the chance they're not 100%.

[stef]

I use a marshall 425B (straight) cab with 4 x g12c rewired for series parallel- 16ohm only. My problem was too much flubby bass and I had to remove the V2a fat cap (100w marshall DF spec, everything on 10 attenuated). Now it sounds much better with a standard v2 cap (.68) - not lacking bass or gain. The G12C can't handle too much bass because it sounds flubby (with this cab though) IME

[Roe]

I've recorded with M75 and is quite happy with the results. it works very well with a sm57, having lots of texture and fat mid yet sound defined