Metropoulos Forum

Hi Guys,

Ive been lurking on here for a couple of years(!!?!), never posted, but have had my 70' JMP 50 clone modded using the wealth of knowledge Ive gotten from these pages, so kudos to you all, this forum really is the coolest on the net!..

Im using an 80's 1960B with prerolas..mmm, should sound awesome, but to my dismay I think they are just too tired - well for what I want anyways- they are sadly really starting to bug the crap outta me!!....Im not running them super hard at all, but the lower mids/bottom end is just not holding up, more than seems characteristic im afraid!...
I put some damping material on the back baffle ala Bogner cabs(gasp!) - that actually worked pretty well - just enough without deadening the box but, alas, no cigar..
The only other way I can get em tighter sounding is using a Blackstar tube pedal with a mullard in it. that seems to help quite a bit. But!...to me its just a horrible pedal - too modern, no real dynamics, touch sensitivity,.. Im wanting to get those characteristics from just the amp. So Im thinking about new drivers...I love the greenback vibe, but Im thinking its time for something tighter/higher wattage. G12h's kinda scare me even though Ive never tried them, (heard heaps on the net) The "big" bottom end and piercing highs dont sound favourable to me, especially as my amp is rather bright, but maybe Im completely wrong -please feel free to convince me otherwise!!....
Would love to try some Scumbacks but, as I live in Perth Western Australia, I'd have to take out a loan to buy and get them here!..( worth it some of you might say!!)
So, Im thinking about the Weber Silver Bell ceramics. Just because I have read so much favourable stuff about them, here and on the net, and because I have a 50 watter sitting here(another story!)...I know there's quite a bit from you guys here about them, but just wanting to get some detailed, review like info of their different characteristics, and how you use them, all on the one page...

I know that these arnt like, Celestion clones, that Weber has a bit of their own thing happening with them, but,

The 30watters, using the 40oz magnet -is a ballpark comparison with the g12m accurate?. Most importantly for me, is the bottom end an improvement on the Greenback?..maybe Flames could chime in here as he seems to be a lover of these...

anyone using the 50 and 75watters? ..they are, as I read somewhere else, using the 50oz magnet, so therefore more G12H ish?...and I spose Im most interested in the 50watter because as I said, I have one, so would have get only another 3...so anyone using those please chime in..

Im not a hard rocker - thus my maybe inordinate fear of big bottom, dont want to be fighting sonically with my bass player, but I am wanting warm, juicy and tight ..a bright top is ok, just not wanting that brittle, cut your head off stuff we all hate.... wanting to have the amp in that zone, where its just starting to cook and you have all that touch sensitivity, harmonics etc, and be able to roll off the guitar volume to clean up a bit if needed..im thinking my amp is pretty cool and feel a speaker upgrade will get me in the right direction...also using quite a few analog effects so hoping for tightness to help with clarity....

So!,..sorry if my first post is a bit of an opus!...but really do appreciate you guys knowledge and am looking forward to your opinions..

Cheers,
Steve

P.S. another option for me is "Greenback" clones by a manufacturer in Oz called "Lorantz", available in different wattages - been around since the 70's, used to make the Rola Celestions here, and using the same machinery, thus the clone..but there is F -all on the net about these..by the longest of longshots, anyone in the states using them?..

What settings are you running on the amp? If you're running the bass too high, everything else kind of falls apart and sounds messy. With Weber, I believe that 40 oz. magnets (at least on the Legacy Series) actually means 35 oz. like original Greenbacks, but it could also be the 30 oz. magnets--this was a question on another thread on this forum. If possible, I'd go for Scumback J Series or Weber Legacies with a 40 oz. magnet. You may also want to check out H speakers with a 55 Hz. cone. Weber and Scumback both make copies of it and it's supposed to be bassier than the regular H speakers, which have 75 Hz. cones.

Thanks for the info Bluesbreaking,

Running the bass on about 2/3?...mids on about 6, trebs on about 5/4...Volume (in top left input,) on about 3 1/2....surprisingly, i think the big straight cab is not helping...I had these greenbacks in a piece of shite chipboard 412 slant covered in black carpet and didnt have the same issues..go figure..discarded that cab in favour of the 1960B cause it was falling apart - it had a hard life..

Im really beginning to think Im not a G12m guy anymore, love some of the G12M qualities but, bottom end lets em down...thus my interest in the Webers...

And, I know prerola's are revered, but again, I just think mine are past their prime - they've had a hard life - not pushed, they are beautiful clean, but begin to push em and they just dont cut it, and my amp is by no means a snarling gain monster...

anyone?...Cmon!...I know heaps of you guys use these!..

i feel the same with greenbacks for what i am playing doesn't cut it. If you can find some goodmans audiom 12p speakers they may just be the ticket for ya they are tighter speakers and i run a quad of them in a marshall 4x12. Also I prefer the sound of chipboard cabs to behonest they are punchier they let the speakers do the talking a lot more than birch ply cabinets also angled cabs alter the sound of the phasing of the speakers to me anyway.

as you say maybe they are just tired maybe rewiring with better wire may make a difference not the crappy thin micky mouse stuff. i tend to use 1.5mm wire for my speakers or even 2.5mm

Hey John,
Not a chance in hell of getting Goodmans!...I live in Perth, Western Australia. Its a city, but we are still like a country town in some respects, so not much choice...speaker choices are basically Celestion, or,..Celestion.
If something else pops up, it'll cost you... noticed a guy here has started importing the new Fanes, but he wants over $250 per unit!!! Im not freakin paying anything crazy like that.. We have some old Aussie made stuff from the seventies and older still getting around, and some of it is real good quality,... Lorantz, who are still going, were making Rola stuff way back in late 60's early 70's, and so they still have all the original tooling ...they have greenback flavoured speakers, but they are kinda Rola celestion sounding (apparently?), ...and know what?...theres so few people who pair them with a Marshall - they all go in Fender clones or whatever in 1x12s...and on Oz forums I cant remember how many times Ive read, "Hey has anyone tried the Lorantz greenback?" and the replies are along the lines of, "yeah, great speaker"......
wow!.. that makes my really just wanna go out and spent $800 on a quad of em...

Cmon guys!, where are all the Weber SB users?...or has everyone gone a bit quiet due to the scumback drama?

Righto I'll give you my exp, I emailed Ted years ago sayin I wanted a nice 3D thing for a 2x12 and a Marshall. He wrote back n said Ceramic blue dog and silver bell, so I buy em. I put the blue dog on top so I never really heard the silver bell. One day I decide to put the silver on top, it just sounded really muddy and distorted. It wasn't blown but if I could have afforded it I would have just pumped it to blow, it was that bad. I've never heard anyone else say a bad thing about the silver bell so wtf. I sold both the blue and silver on the bay and won't bother with either again. I really like WGS ET65, I sold my 4 M75 scummies recently and get a tone more to my liking with the ET65s. Haven't heard anyone say that either so what the hell do I know.