Ok whats with the new G12C 25 watt speakers... ?????

[SoZo]

http://www.areyouexperienced.net/celest ... eakers.htm

[Roe]

these are a variation of the g12m that sounds quite good. apart from buying a 425 cab (or the hendrix stack) you can only get these speakers as a marshall spare part, in which case you'll have to supply a serial number

[SoZo]

a variation of the G12m Heritage 20's?

[Scumback Speakers]

Yeah, they have appear to have 4 versions of the Heritage G12M.

One is the specially aged version that goes in the
1974X 18 watt combos Marshall sells. Only available
if you buy the 18 watt combo.

Another is the G12C that goes in the Hendrix stack.

Another is the EVH model, which is just a
(by most accounts) relabeled G12M Heritage
production model.

And finally the standard, non aged Heritage G12M.
All of these speakers are 25 watt models. The 20 watt
designation is just there as marketing to make people
think they're getting the original 20 watt Pre Rola type speaker.

Here's a pic of the real deal (left side in pics) vs the Heritage, just FYI:



Front side of cones, original Pre Rola 20 watt on the left:



Cone # of original Pre Rola 20 watt:


Cone # of Heritage Reissue 20 watt:

[dnatronic]

Thanks to Jim for those excellent speaker shots of an original 20 watt versus the modern 20 watt speaker!

Regarding the G12C, in my opinion these are the best sounding of all the new Celestion modern greenbacks that Jim highlighted. I have a quad of them in a 425A cabinet that I picked up for a good deal. I think they sound better than the EVH speakers (which I also have) so they should also sound better than the heritage 20W speakers (which I do not have). However, they are built exactly like the EVH speakers and only differ in the cones. For all practical purposes they are extremely close in sound. The only other speakers that should sound this good would be some older 6402 cone greenbacks that Ralle and Rockstah have, but I've never tried these.

Of course scumback M75s have the best sounding cones of them all!

[dnatronic]

The EVH speakers also have 11914 cones just as the G12M heritage speakers do as shown in these pictures. So it looks like the EVH celestion is just a G12M speaker with EVH labeling (marketing). Potentially, they could have a different coil former but I would assume they have the same coil former as the G12M.

[zackd]

I have the Marshall Hendrix cabs with g12c's in em. I love how they sound and am very happy with them. I owned the regular angled handwired cab and perfer the G12c's in the Hendrix cabs. I belive the g12c's in the Hendrix cab are made in england, I am not sure about the g12c's in the vintage modern cabs though. Someday if i ever need any more speaker's I would like to try out the scumback's.

[ampSnob]

The G12C is really sweet. I have no idea why they are not available easily, but finding a deal on the 425 cab isn't that hard. Initially when I got them I could have sworn they were chinese (because of the sticker perhaps? the wire terminal style?) and I thought they were way better than the standard chinese greenback but now that I compare it to a heritage everything l looks suprisingly similar so I have no idea where they came from. (I don't have any chinese greenbacks anymore to compare them to) In any case, rare but cheaper than heritages and sweeeeet sounding. I believe celestion wanted them to be a cross between the Heavier H30 magnets (fabled to be in Hendrix's cabs but who knows if that's true) and a greenback. If you come across them I recommend them. Here some pics:

Note the cone stamp. I could be waaaay waaay of on this but I believe 53H1777 is the latest incarnation of the fabled 6402 cone stamper mechanism.. (going off memory of a post from many years back)

[frenchie]

i'm wondering if the G12C are more efficient than scummies M75 ( celestion often are more efficient ) ? anyone compared them ? i've got a cheap deal on them and wan't to pair them with two H75 scumbacks to eventually complete a nice 4X12 .

[Scumback Speakers]

I've got G12M's with 53H1777 cones and they're the same, or maybe just a tiny hair louder than a Scumback M75. Mine aren't broken in, though, because the tone is, well, brighter/harsher than the M75's.

[frenchie]

I've got G12M's with 53H1777 cones and they're the same, or maybe just a tiny hair louder than a Scumback M75. Mine aren't broken in, though, because the tone is, well, brighter/harsher than the M75's.

thanks jim really appreciated info ....sound like the ticket for Ms even less overpowered by Hs....and G12C really don't sound bad at all to me ;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MtmpMEMg-g" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

surprisingly good with bogners actually

[Scumback Speakers]

thanks jim really appreciated info ....sound like the ticket for Ms even less overpowered by Hs....and G12C really don't sound bad at all to me ;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MtmpMEMg-g" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

surprisingly good with bogners actually

Kind of hard to judge the speaker tone from a youtube clip, especially with a big pedalboard in the signal, compressed camera mic, etc. but it didn't sound bad. The ones I have don't sound bad, either, they just don't sound as good as a pre rola or M75.

ampSnob: I'd have to check my archives, but it's possible that the 53H1777 cone # is the 6402 cone successor. I've got real 6402 cones and these 53H1777 as well. The 6402 cones sound a bunch better than the 53H1777 in side by side tests.

[frenchie]

true about the camera mic compression and the pedalboard , and these are probably well broken in too ....but i've got a chance to get them really really cheap ( and i'm broke so i have to calculate these days ) , will try and see , i'll probably need to break them in though ....a cab with my two H75 and two G12C is probably the best thing i can find in france for my price range , and no need to say how thin is the second hand speaker market in here apart from the shitty mainstream speakers ...almost inexistant ....

[ampSnob]

I went through my old saved notes and found the quote. I have no idea who wrote it -sorry much apologies for that. (If anyone recognizes this I'll be sure to give the credit)

I've never thought about that but you might be onto something rockstah. After doing a little research, I discovered that the original greenback reissues and the Vox blue reissues used a 6402 cone, which was stamped as 53-1777. This cone is a little different in tone than the 1777 cone used in modern G12T-75 speakers etc. According to DunxB, the 53-1777 cone was designed to recreate the tone of the older celestion cones. These cones were used for example in the 8 ohm greenback reissues that were used in reissue Vox AC-30s (8 ohms each to get a total of 16 ohms in series in a 2x12). Maybe Ralle has four of these in his cab, or maybe four of the equivalent celestion 8 ohm greenback labeled versions. Perhaps the greenback reissues made today use the standard 1777 cones instead of the 53-1777 cones. This would make sense because the Heritage greenback 12m-20s are supposed to have the specially designed recreations of theolder cones (which are the same as the new EVH model blackbacks). This is just a theory but maybe what Ralle has are essentially the same as today's modern EVH speakers but in an 8 ohm version. And technically, as suggested by DunxB, the modern celestions including reissues and heritages all use the same type of coil construction as used from 1973 onward, which makes the EVH speakers the most like blackbacks (so the black covers on the EVH are more historically correct than most people realize). Since Ed had lots of checkerboard 4x12s from back in the day, it's likely that a lot of the early VH recordings used blackbacks instead of pre-rola celestions, which are also the most like Ralle's speakers which is why Ralle's tone is so close to VH no matter the specs in his amp. Hmmm . . . food for thought.

So there's an 'H' in the G12C (53H1777 vs 53-1777) which is different than what I initially thought. Wonder if that the "Heavy" part of the greenback-H30 combination as the magnet cover looks to be M sized

I completely agree about the pulsonic cones being the best I've tried so far. I've been jonesing for some M75s....Someday...Cant wait to try them.

[Celestion101]

The EVH is simply a re-branded Heritage G12M as noted on our site. The "C" is different but I can't say!