JBL D120F JMP1986 question

[Mynameisfritz]

Hi guys,

I checked out two 8 ohm JBL D120F's wired to 4 ohms in an open back Twin cab recently with my all original JMP 1986 from '69 and my '57 LP Historic with Amber PAF's, in search of that Dickey/Duane Fillmore tone - right next to my 4x12 cab loaded with 8 ohm G12H30 Pre-Rolas. The idea was to put these JBL's in the 4x12, so it would have 2 Celestions and 2 D120's in it.
But now I changed my mind - I had to, because despite of the beautiful clean tone these JBL's have, they really suck with any overdrive box I own at moderate volumes. The highs are just too harsh and fizzy. The only way I could make them sing is to crank up the amp completely. There it was - THE tone. I loved it - but this was waaay too loud... The Pre-Rolas on the other hand do their job much better at any kind of volume. So finally I came to the conclusion that these JBL's just won't do it for me. Can this be true??!! I mean - did I miss something? Is there any pedal that works with them at lower volumes - say at about 3 or 4? Any suggestions? Thanks.

[bluesbreaking]

I haven't tried them, but Cerwin-Vega ER-123's are what Duane Allman used on the Fillmore recording and are supposed to sound like a hybrid JBL-Celestion speaker. Weber makes a reproduction and is supposed to sound pretty good. I really want to give a pair a try with my Greenbacks...

[Mynameisfritz]

Yeah, I heard about these Weber speakers - but they are pretty expensive over here. Concerning the JBL's and Cerwin Vegas I read this in another forum:

Speakers: This is the most important factor of them all, IMHO.
Sure, you need the Les Paul/humbucker guitar and the Marshall 50W, but even then you won't really get there.
From at least early '70 and onwards, both Duane and Dickey used two amp heads on top of two Marshall basketweave cabinets each.
There have been lots of rumours of which type speaker they used. There are photos from early '70 showing that both Duane and Dickey used the top/slanted cabs with the back panel removed, and just a replacement back panel strip on the upper and lower part of the cab, so it was open in the middle half. Both cabs definitely show JBL D120F speakers.
As far as the bottom cabs, they both had the back panel on, and there's no telling which speakers were in those cabs.
However, I think that Duane's tone changed slightly from the latter part of '70 and onwards, becoming a little rounder, compressed and gainier, with almost a fuzzy edge, whereas Dickey's tone became differentiated into a very sweet, clear and bell-like tone.
I searched out a pair of JBL D120Fs and used those in an open-back 2x12 for a while.
Those speakers sound great, but they are very articulate, cleanish and almost hi-fi. Very touch responsive, but I feel they can be a bit harsh when pushed, especially with a lot of overdrive.
The midrange never sounded just right for a Duane-type tone to my ears. For more of a Dickey bell-like tone, they sound great.

I heard a rumour that Duane used Cerwin-Vega ER123 speakers along with the stock Celestion speakers in his cabs, and went back to a closed-back setup.
So I tracked down a pair of those ER123s, tried them in the 2x12 and went "eureka!".
That's it. There it is - all the sizzle, honk, scream, crunch, touch-responsiveness, woodiness and clarity you could ever want.
Then I went one further and paired them up with a pair of Scumback H55s (Celestion G12H30 clones) in a '70 basketweave cab (closed back) and never looked back.
It's simply put the nicest sounding cab I've ever heard.
To be fair, I've since tried the open-back 2x12 JBL cab along with a closed-back 4x12 with G12H30s, and that's a fantastic tone as well.
For those who are deep into ABB history, I'd say the 2x12 D120F/4x12 G12H30 combination might actually be the closest to the original Fillmore East album whereas the ER123/H55 4x12 nails the later June '71 Fillmore recordings
Bottom line; you need to mix speakers, you need the Celestions, but you need to pair them up with something else to get the right sizzle and honk and the trebly crunch.

[shakti]

I wrote that, and I still stand by it. I'd like to add that I've since noticed that at least one of the cabs that Duane and Dickey used had a "Bass" corner logo, which would indicate T1511 speakers, i.e. G12M 55Hz. However, we don't know if that was a cab which had Celestions in it, a mix of speakers, or even if they still used the M speakers at all.

[Mynameisfritz]

Shakti – right, you posted that, although I don’t remember where… Anyway - you provide a lot of good info on that topic, thanks!
I think I’ll go for the Webers too, ceramic with moderate doping for a closed back cab. In fact they are not as expensive. (The alnico version is …)
I wonder how they’ll sound with a strat doing Hendrix stuff. If they do that too, this would be the ideal cab.
How's your cab sounding with a strat, shakti?

Here's a little slide jammin'.

http://www.soundclick.com/player/single ... i&newref=1