alnico II & III magnets? pickups

rockstah · Post by **rockstah** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:23 am

anyone have experience with alnico 2 and alnico 3 magnets and could compare each ones tone atributes?

sense alnico 3 is not as powerful as alnico 5 which is stronger, a2 or a3?

Mark

SB Monster · Post by **SB Monster** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:22 am

Alnico III is the weakest and purest. I dont think that purity has anything to do with the tone just by composition. III is gonna get a little more sustain as it won't pull on the strings as much. I've no experience comparing the two magnets in humbuckers but as far as single coils go, I can tell you that alnico III is more natural sounding. The highs are softened and the sound doesn't feel just as springy as alnico II. You'll hear the wood in the guitar more as opposed to II being fairly sweet but a bit more treble present, alnico II always sounds a bit limp to my ears.

Paul

rockstah · Post by **rockstah** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:20 pm

SB Monster wrote:Alnico III is the weakest and purest. I dont think that purity has anything to do with the tone just by composition. III is gonna get a little more sustain as it won't pull on the strings as much. I've no experience comparing the two magnets in humbuckers but as far as single coils go, I can tell you that alnico III is more natural sounding. The highs are softened and the sound doesn't feel just as springy as alnico II. You'll hear the wood in the guitar more as opposed to II being fairly sweet but a bit more treble present, alnico II always sounds a bit limp to my ears.

Paul

SB,
thanks for the food for thought

Mark

rockstah · Post by **rockstah** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:30 pm

Got some magnets from Jim Wagner and just tried alnico 2 and alnico 3 in my darkburst pickup.

both recorded the same. 12 series per dans layout

i believe alnico 2 is the sweetest of the two.
both 2 and 3 are way sweeter and not as edging as alnico 5 which is what came in the darkburst.

see if you can tell.

http://www.markabrahamian.com/alnico2and3/ALNICO2.mp3

http://www.markabrahamian.com/alnico2and3/ALNICO3.mp3

(hard to tell alnico 2 is the funnest to play at this point for me)

Mark

JD · Post by JD » Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:10 pm

I too prefer the Alnico II over V for its smooth top end. From what I'm told the Alnico III is a bit weaker but not quite as thick as the Alnico II or as bright as the Alnico V.

rockstah · Post by **rockstah** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:30 pm

JD wrote:I too prefer the Alnico II over V for its smooth top end. From what I'm told the Alnico III is a bit weaker but not quite as thick as the Alnico II or as bright as the Alnico V.

100% agree with that! 3 is not as thick as 2. and 2 is sweeter - juicier for sure.

Sportsterguy · Post by **Sportsterguy** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:36 pm

Just my 2 cents, but I think unless you're a touring musician or a studio musician, the type of alnico that's in your pick ups is about as important as the type of fabric that's in the shirt that you're wearing. I'm just a lowly CPA trying to grunge out a living. For me, it's fun to play with this stuff, to relive my youth, and to have some relief from the day to day stuff that you have to do to make a living. Therefore, my thoughts on this subject should count less than the type of fabric that's in the shirt that you're wearing.

But, at some point it gets to be over analytical and you just have to play your guitar and try to make it sound good. Looking back, Leo (Fender) started out with alnico III pickups with formvar pickup wiring. Seth Lover (Gibson) started out with alnico II. In the late fifties, both switched to alnico V. How many great songs were recorded on factory pickups where the musician had no idea as to the type of magnet in his/her pickups?

rockstah · Post by **rockstah** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:48 pm

Sportsterguy wrote:Just my 2 cents, but I think unless you're a touring musician or a studio musician, the type of alnico that's in your pick ups is about as important as the type of fabric that's in the shirt that you're wearing. I'm just a lowly CPA trying to grunge out a living. For me, it's fun to play with this stuff, to relive my youth, and to have some relief from the day to day stuff that you have to do to make a living. Therefore, my thoughts on this subject should count less than the type of fabric that's in the shirt that you're wearing. But, at some point it gets to be over analytical and you just have to play your guitar and try to make it sound good. Looking back, Leo (Fender) started out with alnico III pickups with formvar pickup wiring. Seth Lover (Gibson) started out with alnico II. In the late fifties, both switched to alnico V. How many great songs were recorded on factory pickups where the musician had no idea as to the type of magnet in his/her pickups?

umm well then i would have to say:
1. you must not have to much experience in different magnet types or at least havent been aware of it before.- there are huge differences between ceramic versus alnico let alone the different types of alnico - huge different such as agressive verses nonagressive or bright verses warm or just how they feel in your hands brittle verses jucy - yes you can feel it.
2. u are right about the guys that started it all back 20+ years ago they didnt know but they had but created some sounds that are pounded into our heads - i believe good sound is all relative to what we have been exposed to.

so in a search for good sound it all make a huge difference in getting sounds as far as magnets... but we all learn this in disecting the sound we hear and comparing to what we have at our disposal... and in that you may not hear it, there is a quite a difference between these two sound files, in their sound as well as how they feel and respond. - its all in how you hear it

my 2 cents
Mark

Sportsterguy · Post by **Sportsterguy** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:37 pm

Hey Mark,

I'm not disagreeing with your perspective on sound. I'm not qualified to provide any meaningful criticism of what you hear or feel as a musician. But as a listener, I can tell you that you don't need to worry about the type of magnet that you have in your pick ups. You sound damn good! In other words, you make music, and in my opinion that's what it's all about. I wish that I had your talent.

Thanks,
John

rockstah · Post by **rockstah** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:14 pm

Sportsterguy wrote:Hey Mark,

I'm not disagreeing with your perspective on sound. I'm not qualified to provide any meaningful criticism of what you hear or feel as a musician. But as a listener, I can tell you that you don't need to worry about the type of magnet that you have in your pick ups. You sound damn good! In other words, you make music, and in my opinion that's what it's all about. I wish that I had your talent.

Thanks,
John

hey John i hear ya. i didnt take its so much as you disagreed but as a discussion enabler. whats greta about these forums - everyone adds something to the mix - food for thought! and thanks man!
Mark

Sportsterguy · Post by **Sportsterguy** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:46 pm

Ya know, going back to the day when manufacturers were experimenting with magnet formulations, and then settling on alnico V, I wonder how much radio had to do with it. Back then, everything was AM radio. Records were EQued to the bright side to compensate for the high frequency roll-off of AM radio. Kind of makes sense that pickups would be voiced to the bright side to compensate for AM radio limitations. And, back then AM was a lot better than what is around today, both sound and content wise.

Necrovore · Post by **Necrovore** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:29 pm

Never thought about it that way. Thats a pretty good point.

As far as the type of magnet. I am checking out a Genesis Mr. Browney that Guitar Adjuster(Allen) loaned me. This is my first voyage into Alnico land. I've pretty much always been a ceramic player. I can say that this pickup using an Alnico II, is tons less compressed than what I am used to. Mark I don't get juicy out of this pickup, I would have to say liquid is what I am hearing. I have to dig in a bit more to pull off some of the tricks I have taken for granted all these years. But saying that, getting the articulation I have needed for ages is right there. I have had to re-eq my amp a bit to tighten up the bottom end a little, but I am really liking this pickup.

JD · Post by JD » Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:41 am

From what I read from the pickup gurus, '50s PAFs had all - Alnico II, III, and V. Supposedly Jimmy Page's #1 has Alnico III, and that is what the current Gibson CS run has in them, a reissue burstbucker PAF with Alnico III bar magnets. I think for the most part Fender always used Alnico V, although there are exceptions.

Correct, to my ears anyway, the Alnico II bottom end is a bit loose but those mids just melt so nice, fat and sweet. The Alnico V is much brighter and punchier, a bit better raw growl.

I went through a huge pickup experimentation phase years back. If you play the same amp and swap them in the same guitar yes the differences can really be substantial. As the saying goes, "anything on the signal path matters."

BBN-Boys · Post by **BBN-Boys** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:34 am

In my experience with pickup magnets, the A2 goes into compression quicker in the attach than the A3. The A3 on the otherhand, has a more open, looser, and 3D sound to it compared to the A2.

As a result, I had Jeff at Highorder custom make me a set that has a A3 (8K) Neck and a A2 (9K) Bridge. Love it!

Mark - nice clips. Try turning down the gain or tube-breakup a little and go into the old blues type tone. I think you'll notice the differnce between the magnets a little more that way. I could really hear the difference most when playing out of my '59 Bassman 4x10.

Personally, I haven't found a A5 pickup that I really liked. The Burstbucker Pro with A5 were just OK to me. The tone didn't really catch my attention.

My 2 cents

Necrovore · Post by **Necrovore** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 11:23 am

Is it normal for a Alnico II pickup to be more mid prominant than the highs? I am getting a lot more mids in this pickup than highs and bass. The bass I am not too worried about, it just seems like there is not too much attack on this pickup. Everything sounds really well rounded which isn't a bad thing; just not so sure it's my thing.

This Mr. Browney is a really sweet pickup if anyone gets a chance to check it out. Just not so sure it suits for playing metal.